We can, collectively, find a resolution other than simply holding concrete contractors responsible for all concrete failures.
1L Cement
1L Cement
We cannot ignore the primary root cause of many concrete challenges in the industry today, which is the relatively recent change in cement chemistries. We can hardly have a conversation with anyone in the industry, or scroll social media, without hearing or seeing complaints of issues with new 1L cements. Their higher limestone content and finer particle size has introduced new challenges for concrete, including reduced strength and increased permeability, among other things. The altered particle size distribution and surface properties of 1L cements significantly influence their interaction with water and aggregates.
We as an industry are paying the price.
This site was created to be a voice for contractors in the industry.
Our goal is to collect and share information in the interest of building collaboration among concrete contractors and others genuinely seeking to understand and solve root problems.
As we accumulate responses, this site will transition into a forum for questions and answers and platform for sharing common experiences.
Concrete finishing is not a perfect science and there is always room for human error.
A possible contributor to the problems we are seeing today with 1L Cement mixes could be the fines from the concrete mix working their way to the surface of the concrete because of excessive vibration and/or over-finishing. At some point, an increase in the fines content of a concrete mixture will be detrimental to the concrete surface. Underhydrated concrete mixes and/or overtreated concrete mixes (i.e., with various chemicals) aggravate this potential even more as finishers find themselves forced to over-work the concrete. Of course, it would be inequitable to suggest that a concrete finisher make do with, and ultimately be responsible for the performance of, whatever materials and processes are required of it.
The use of 1L cements and their greater fineness and the use of aggregates having higher fine contents (the specification of which have not been adjusted to compensate for the increased fines of 1Ls) together with insufficient water to adequately hydrate this new level of combined fineness, results in a less-than-ideal concrete mixture for proper finishing.
General Comments Regarding 1L Cements.
When 1L cements were first starting to be adopted, all cement manufacturers were touting that 1L cement would be a direct 1:1 replacement for original Portland cement, without impact on strength or durability. In fact, some even suggested there would be an improvement in strength and workability of concrete made with 1L cement. While this seemed unlikely, the market accepted these promises. At this point, there is no question by anyone in the market – including those same cement manufacturers – that 1L cement performance is simply not the same as original Portland cement. 1L cements have unquestionably negatively affected the strength gain and durability of our concrete.
Despite this, 1L cement seems not to be going away and may only become more problematic within the next two or three years if the industry moves toward even greater limestone replacement as is currently being suggested. While this is being championed in the name of carbon reduction, the simple fact is that the industry is actually increasing the amount of cement powder being used in any concrete mix in order to make up for 1L cement strength deficiencies. This is resulting in greater cement production than in the past. And, with greater 1L cement powder content in our concrete mixes, we are producing less durable concrete with a reduced service life, which also will require greater cement production to supply the need for more frequent concrete replacement. The net result is that 1L cements in the U.S. are, in effect, not improving the world’s carbon footprint at all and, in the meantime, Departments of Transportation (and their taxpayers), investors in commercial projects, general contractors and concrete contractors are paying the price.
Some have argued that “limestone cements” have been used successfully for decades outside of the U.S. While this may be true, it is important to note that the manufacturing process for those cements is not the same process as that being used to make 1L cements in the U.S. and the requirements and limitations of the relative standards are quite different (see European standard, BS 197-1, as compared to the U.S. standard, ASTM C595). In the U.S., not only has effective pozzolanic material been replaced with inert limestone having greater Blaine fineness which requires greater water for proper hydration and bonding, but unspecified grinding aids are being used to attain that fineness and other undisclosed materials (such as calcium formate (accelerators)) are being added to the cement to help combat the strength issues of 1Ls, all of which further compromise the cement chemistry and its interactions with water, aggregates and other chemical admixtures.
Testing at Purdue University in late 2023 showed lacking performance of a variety of traditional admixtures included in the study (made by multiple different manufacturers) when used with 1L cements. Why is this? Without full disclosure and evaluation of actual cement contents, there is a big unknown that can have far-reaching effects on other materials and chemicals in a concrete mixture. There is simply no product available today that can be expected to perform the same that it did before cement chemistries were changed.
We strongly encourage concrete contractors to share their experiences with 1L cements and express any concerns about further potential changes in cement chemistries here as well as with their local engineers.
We can, collectively, find a resolution other than simply holding concrete contractors responsible for all concrete failures.
What We’ve HEard So far…
Surface issues/delamination. I have been finishing concrete for 23 years and owned my own business for 18 of those years and just recently started seeing surface issues on concrete we poured 2-3 years ago. I have never experienced issues of this nature before. I am ACI certified and follow proper finishing techniques, along with using a quality ready mix company.
— LawrenceMy father has been in business since the 90’s in Cleveland, Ohio. He has developed a great business for always doing quality work and pouring at a tight slump for freezing climates (never more than a 5” slump). He’s rarely had any issues until the last 3-4 years. I took over the company 2 years ago, but he is still actively working every day with us. We use the best supplier in the area (Carr Bros), apply sealer, and keep the mix tight; yet still we have had multiple driveways begin to spall and fall apart after one winter. Contractors across the US have had nothing but problems with this new type of cement. It needs to be changed back immediately before it risks businesses (who’ve done nothing but quality work for years) going out of business. My father has poured the same way since the 90’s and we continue to do that. This new type1L cement is GARBAGE and is making our company look bad. It needs to change ASAP.
— AnthonyHi, I'm the concrete project director for a concrete finishing contractor in Quebec City and i want to learn more about all experiences with others contractor about the Type 1L cement. I will able to share with you our experiences too.
— UgoI have had to replace 3 driveways i poured in 2024.Concrete supplier paid for material to replace but still lost time and looks bad on us.
— ParkerInconsistent break strengths. Some 28 day cylinders break lower than the 7 day cylinder from the same set.
— GaryI build concrete planters and never had an issue until the introduction of 1l cement. We need to find a solution to this be cause the cracking problem is ruining my reputation well as thousands of contractors. We need to fix this
— LarsonWe have been having major job site issues with this type 1L cement, type one L cement is a role of the dice. The product does not last. Flaking, cracking, chipping, are very high with this cement. This product is making lots of veteran concrete men retire
— AustinI have found the limestone type 1L to be weak until full cure and still not as good as type 1 but I use type one at all times now. My wife and myself own a concrete foundry we cast tables,benchs and birdbaths with over 50 years of this type work I believe the powers to be are selling a far weaker product in order to make more money.
— ClintonToo many problems to list.
— KellyAlthough we fall into the category of useful uses for L1 in Cellular Concrete. Our mixes require a higher cement content in order to reach strength we were able to easily get with traditional cement. We use 20% more L1 to make equivalent product outcomes. Increasing the costs from RM producers, increasing our carbon footprint requiring more cement in the mix.
— Craig HCement suppliers refuse to admit the problem exists.
— MarkCement suppliers refuse to admit the problem exists.
— LawrenceThis new style of concrete is complete garbage when it comes to finishing, unbelievably sticky you cannot finish it without a surface additive. It should not be up to the finisher to fix a product that producers are cheaping out on materials while raising prices at the same time.
— NickWe own a Gunite Company and are discusted with this poor crap quality of 1L cement. It is unacceptable and for sure going to ruin the industry in time unless plants go back to offereing type 1/2 Portland cement again or OPC cent!
— ChrisCrazing with 1L Cements.
— JamesConcrete from the 1930's is still in use today. By introducing L1 cement all they are doing is creating a product that is designed to fail in short fashion. Install today, tear out and replace tomorrow. More money for the producer. Not good for the installer that will need to revisit last years job because of issues.
— Craig DWe are a contractor in the Midwest. This last winter was a true Ohio winter with a lot of Freeze/thaw cycles and ice storms. Concrete everywhere is blowing apart. I've never had any issues in 21 years like this. Slabs will be fine on 80% with areas as large as 6' x 6' completely destroyed. Several are on patios and areas that have never seen salt / traffic / shoveling. We use 6.5 bag mixes with Fiber. We use E5 Internal Cure and Day1 Finishing aid on the surface which signficantly helps. But, it's happening on all types of finishes poured in all different temps/humidity. Some slabs are holding up perfectly so far, but there's no difference in the product or conditions.
— KeithAll of the Concrete plants around here are using type 1L cement because of all of the government influence and incentives. It’s great for the concrete plants, but is horrible for me as an owner of a concrete contracting company and all of my fellow friends that own concrete companies.
Doing Concrete is already tough enough and now the tradesmen are being put into a position where they have to work with a product that is very hard to work with and has lots of issues. People across the entire United States are going to court and filing lawsuits over this type one cement that is being used. This product is horrible and it’s going to be bad for producers and consumers.
— AustinFloors cracking before we are finished with floors. Using all the chemicals we can, confilm, day 1, eucoshield, nca. Some floors have cracked before we put a machine on it.
— JohnSince type 1L was mandated in our area cracking has gone up 10x and us the contractors are being held liable for that. I don’t have margins that allow me to tear out and replace a slab due to a failure that was out of my hands. It’s gambling, playing with fire. Makes me not want to pour concrete anymore as im nervous it’s going to end up costing me in the long run from the EPA screwing up everything like they always do. How it’s this more environmentally friendly if it’s weaker and has to be removed more often?
— MattSince type 1L was mandated in our area cracking has gone up 10x and us the contractors are being held liable for that. I don’t have margins that allow me to tear out and replace a slab due to a failure that was out of my hands. It’s gambling, playing with fire. Makes me not want to pour concrete anymore as im nervous it’s going to end up costing me in the long run from the EPA screwing up everything like they always do. How it’s this more environmentally friendly if it’s weaker and has to be removed more often?
— MattWe have a few jobs lined up that are descent size pours. All of the chatter revolving around this new concrete mix design has been negative. Has there been any developments to this situation?
— MaureeceType 1 L concrete, flooring installation failure implications.
— AlConcrete Contractor for 30 years in the Midwest. Seems to be growing concerns over 1L cement. Every local concrete supplier uses 1L, and traditional "portland cement" is not available any longer. I want to stay current on the issues of 1L.
— Steve6+ years ago, our company was known to have "the best flatwork mud". Over the last several years, when there were cement shortages, etc, we started using Eco-Cem, but that was mainly for foundations and we're not hearing a lot of issues about walls, etc. The problems have been huge with outdoor and indoor residential flatwork. Because I am a total geek about this stuff, I have been reading and reading and along with many others, we are experiencing peeling,spalling, flaking, cracking,taking a long time to wipe basements.They have changed the sand (inpurities),decreased/increased flyash, using fibre mesh with one of the builders because they're pissed! We are using sealers, including penetrating sealers because of freeze/thaw cycles (which have ALWAYS existed in central Alberta) and that isn't helping either. We've had to tear out driveways, etc. within 2 years and re-pour them, which seems counterproductive to being eco-friendly. Concrete has been used for thousands of years and it WAS a solid product. Ironically, we have poured jobs for people who are all about the environment, but get annoyed that their driveway is flaking after a week. WHAT THE HELL??? I get the environmental concern, but if it isn't working, it's time to go to the next option. Maybe the CO2 emissions have improved, but it's legit destroying the quality of concrete within the industry requiring re-do's, etc. They need another plan because this is not working at all.
we have always used Duramix for garages (low air) and outdoor flatwork. The Eco-Cem is used in foundations and seems okay and the Duramix has K-Mil cement and that also contains...wait for it...1L cement and THAT is where our issues are.
— AliCentral US. Already have had several issues with local plant this spring. Something need to change.
— JordanMake concrete great again. This new mix is terrible to work with and went from no call backs to tons of them.
— ChrisFinishers complaining over set times and cracking issues.
— BobbyThis new cement sucks. Please go back to the old cement chemistry.
— JoeThe workability is terrible can't pour if any wind period. On interior - slab cracking before power trowel is removed, terrible product!
— RichardThis new concrete is garbage. I’ve never had problemslike I have been having
— NickIt sucks!
— MichaelExperiencing lots of problems. Supplier fails to admit it’s the 1L powder. Every contractor on my area has had problems. Customers are pissed. I am a 30 year veteran and cannot for the life of me figure out what to do from day to day to finish. The last 3 years everything is coming apart. Still no answers
— JamesTops Spalding. Placing is terrible, inconsistent mix.
— MartyLots of pitting on jobs!!
— ErikIncredibly hard to work with, lesser quality product, random surface failures working with 1L cement.
— JoshuaI’ve got to tell you about this job we did recently using Type 1L concrete. Honestly, it was one of the worst pours I’ve had in years, and I’ve been doing this a long time. I wouldn’t even be writing this if it wasn’t for how frustrating and ridiculous the whole situation was.
We were pouring a commercial patio extension, about 2,500 square feet. Nothing fancy. Good weather, proper prep, experienced crew. It should’ve gone smooth. We get the first truck and I immediately notice the mix looks wrong. We ordered a 4-inch slump, and what showed up looked like half-dried oatmeal. Couldn’t get it to flow. The pump guy’s already giving me the look. We had to add water and hit it with plasticizer just to get it moving.
Right then I had a bad feeling, but we were locked in. Forms were stripped, inspections passed, and we had deadlines. So we went ahead and placed it.
That’s when the real problems started.
The mix had no cream to it. It didn’t want to close up at all. I’ve worked with a lot of different mixes, but this stuff was dead on arrival. It dried unevenly across the slab and finishing it was like chasing a ghost. Float lines wouldn’t clean up. You’d trowel one spot and the next spot would already be crusting over. And the bleed water? Totally inconsistent. Some areas were bone dry, others were slick like they were still fresh.
We ended up babysitting the slab for hours. Just waiting. Trying to time it right. But when it finally started to set, it didn’t gradually tighten up like normal. It just snapped into a set. No warning. One minute we’re standing around, next minute we’re running machines full tilt trying to keep up. Edges were already flashing off while we were still working the center. Everyone was scrambling. Even my most experienced finisher said he hadn’t fought a slab like that in years.
And then came the cracks. Like clockwork. Plastic shrinkage cracks all over the place, even though we were curing and misting like we were supposed to. It was hot, sure, but we’ve poured in worse. I called the plant and asked what the hell kind of mix this was. That’s when they told me it was Type 1L cement.
Makes sense now.
We came back the next morning to saw cut and it still wasn’t ready. Usually we can cut joints by 6 to 12 hours in. This was closer to 18, and even then the blade was fighting the mix. It just felt soft and off.
A few days later the client calls, asking why the slab looks like a zebra. Random discoloration, patches, weird finish tones. We’ve done the same finish a thousand times. Same brooms, same trowels. The only thing different was the cement.
Here’s the bottom line. That pour cost me more money, more labor, and more time than it should’ve. And the end result still wasn’t something I was proud of. The mix behaved like it had never seen real-world conditions. I don’t care what the spec sheets say or what the lab results claim. This stuff doesn’t work like the old Type I or II mixes we’ve used for decades.
Pump guys hate it. Finishers hate it. Hell, even the clients aren’t happy with the way it looks. I shouldn’t have to babysit concrete like this. I shouldn’t have to modify my entire process or cross my fingers just to make sure a basic slab doesn’t turn into a disaster.
Until someone figures out how to make 1L perform like real cement in the field, I’m asking to sub it out of every job I can. I want to pour. I don’t want to fight the mix the whole time. We’re supposed to be building, not testing chemistry experiments.
If you’ve worked with this stuff, you know exactly what I’m talking about.
— ChrisThe bleeding water is ruining the curing time of the concrete as a whole. Sealing edges has become much harder in regards to timing. The end result in labor hours spent from laying it down to fixing and other curing issues is out of hand. Get rid of 1L cement!!
— GarrettMultiple projects poured in the last couple years now popping and a few with unusual cracks. Finishing Aid on just about every job.
— ScottHave had pads already popped and stamped and decorative already popped as well. I understand some of it could be freeze thaw, but there’s no time for set up on this stuff. It just takes off right away ripping and redoing a patio today and I’ve only been hearing complaints from last year.
— HunterLots of issues with spalling and cracking with the Type 1L. I buy and place around 30 million a year in concrete. The liability's are adding up with this cement and will put me out of business if I cannot figure this out.
— DannyCement is very bad and opens us up to law suits.
— RichardNo bueno.
— Josh1L is a terrible product, and in turn makes it almost impossible to produce a quality product. We need a change now.
— NickDelamination cracking excessive wear all of these issues are happening at an alarming rate the comment i make to customer while seeling them away from todays concrete. "concrete is maybe a 5 year life cylce since these cementchanges" these new mixes make the buisness unstainable for us contractors. There was zero education or information passed on to us from suppliers. But boy did we learn when time had passed by replacing pours from the previous year. And the cowardly suppliers who do not stand by the product tucked tail and ran from the problems. The best suggestion i can think of right now is a class action suit against all these suppliers to make them stand behind the failing products to include all of the placement costs. After 40 years in the industry I can promise you it is not the finishing methods in all these cases.
— RichardI have had nothing but spalling issues since 2022.
— ChadI’m a concrete contractor in Colorado. I want to say we are being held responsible for all the failing concrete. The ready mix companies say are not held liable after it leaves the yard and that the failures are because of finishing practices therefore causing spauling of the top. The state dept uses mag chloride on the roads and well as all ice melts and that stuff will pop a top on concrete immediately. So what all of a sudden is it poor practice causing spauling? Nope, sorry there will be a huge lawsuit if they keep this going. I’ve been finishing concrete for the last 40 years so nobody will tell me it’s the finishers.
— JohnConcerned with popping and scaling, not so much cracking.
— Daniel